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Saturday, July 3, 2010

Byzantine ID? John V Palaeologus AE follaro (Sear 2515)

PLEASE NOTE: THIS POST WAS MADE IN 2010 AND BY NOW MANY OF THE IMAGES AND LINKS ARE BROKEN. WE WILL TRY TO RESTORE THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

(Click title or here to backtrack to the original post on Forvm Ancient Coins -- which got really heated for numismatics discussion! Interesting stuff, a lot of it outta my league!)


(Or here to backtrack to Cointalk, which went nowhere fast; a surprising reversal of my EL Hekte? postings to those same boards!)

It turns out this little coin--not too impressive to look at--happens to be a "museum piece," in the sense that Oxford's Ashmoleum Museum has one...maybe others. And mine seems to be one of the best known examples. To think, I got it for $1 (well, in a big lot of coins that were like $300/300). This one could pay for that whole lot.... For the private collection, or for sale? Tempting, for sure--both ways!


John V Palaeologus AE/Copper Follaro


Mostly I just post images of coins from our private, no-sell collection. However, I *might* sell this coin later, though I've had it in my personal collection, unattributed for about five-six years. I've just never been quite sure what it is (not that unusual!); nor does it have any sentimental value (which means automatically "keep it"). But recently I've gotten some help (see above and below) from people more knowledgeable about late Byzantine coins. (I know a LOT more about Roman, especially Imperial.)


I have a lot of trouble with Byzantine coins from this time, since there were rarely any legends and the designs were so crude and variable within issue. But I have a tentative attribution. Would anyone weigh in on it, either way?

I think it's Sear Byzantine #2515 (I should buy the reference, but never got around to the Byz one, just Greek ones, and some Roman--definitely wish I still had my catalog collection from when I was a teenager in the 90s, but my parents tossed it (well, I shouldn't blame them, since I was complicit)--CNG, CCE, Ed J Waddell, etc. Not as bad as my grandma depositing my dad's seated liberty dollars in the bank when he was a teen! Ha!)

Where I got this id--after scouring everything I could for countless hours over a couple years--

Switching obv/rev, and making them the same size, here's mine thumbnail size. The little fellow on the left clinches it for me: You should see image here

Wildwinds (text is linked): You should see image here
John V Palaeologus Æ Follaro. 1.95 grams. Constantinople mint, 1379-1391 AD. D MH TP C P, Demetrius standing facing, holding spear, shield, & globus cruciger / Facing bust of John, holding cross-scepter; pellet to left. (Sear 2515)
Coinarchives (text is linked): You should see image here
John V Palaeologus (1341-1391). Copper follaro (1.59 gm). Constantinople. Bust of St. Demetrius facing / Crowned bust of John facing. Bendall 331.2. Sear 2515. Very rare. A little weakly struck in spots, otherwise very fine

Yet another image, generously posted by Glebe to Forvm: You should see image here

I tracked it back to here, a Harlan J Berk auction this past March, and scrapped togeter some images:
You should see image here

Mine: 16mm, 1.2g. A little light (similar to the Harlan J Berk auction item), but doesn't seem unreasonable for the time, given the degree of variation within issue.

I'd love to have any input on this coin from anyone, so please comment!
Thanks! --Curtis JJ

6 comments:

  1. UPDATE-- Yet another image found, this one from the "Ashmolean Musuem University of Oxford"... However, the numismatist who curated that collection ID's it as Manuel II! So confusing. I won't post the additional image, but you can see it on the BACKTRACK to the original Forvm disucssion.

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  2. This cures me of wanting to collect - but can you tell me what the letter "k" means when it appears on coins of Alexandretta (5th-6thC AD)? No one seems to know.

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  3. That wasn't my intended purpose, but if you don't want to collect anymore, email me, and I'll the coin off your hands!

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  4. john v .............or manuel ii

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    Replies
    1. Almost 100% certain it's a John V. We've got a number of Manuel II tetarterons and half tetarterons as well

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  5. See also a number of published examples shared by forumancientcoins.com member Paleologos: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=64138.msg543563#msg543563

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